This is part two of my interview with Indian scholar, Dr. Vishal Mangalwadi. Part one of the interview can be found here. Dr. Mangalwadi will be speaking at Northshore Baptist Church in Bothell, Wash. Friday at 7 p.m. For more information on Dr. Mangalwadi, visit his Web site at www.vishalmangalwadi.com.
Abortion is another topic that has been receiving a lot of media attention, why is that still such a hot topic today?
Because the Pro-life lobby is in disarray and weak, as it was beaten badly in the last election. The media is having a great time mocking, and trying to put the last nail in the coffin.
The problem is not abortion per se. The problem is, in fact, the question of human life. The greatest discovery of the West–the fact that made the West different from the rest of the world– was the discovery of human dignity…that human beings are different from all other animals. There is fundamental right to life for human beings. A chicken doesn’t have, a cow doesn’t have , a pig doesn’t have the right that you have.
Is a human being unique made in God’s image? It was this idea that enabled the West to create a political system where the whole government exists to defend the right of the little individual. The president of America cannot trample on the right of even the littlest individual. If he does he can be impeached. He can be taken to court because he has all of the power to do right, no power to do wrong. This is different from the rest of the world.
The notion of human dignity came from the Incarnation–that God became man. He could become man because man was made in his image, and man is so important that God killed himself to give his life for human beings. So it’s only when you look at the value of human beings through the grid of the Cross of Calvary [that you see] the value of every individual. If you give that up, then a human being is nothing more than an animal.
Idi Amin had 32 wives. When he got mad with one he had her cooked for dinner. If she’s nothing more than a cow, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t do so. That’s how Hitler and Stalin treated millions of their citizens.
And this is what American universities and courts and politics are saying, so the talk about abortion and making fun of the pro-choice pro-life groups is really this attempt to amputate the very essence of Western civilization.
The whole idea of the value of every individual, created the economic system, the political system, the judicial system, the educational system, the family system. And without it, America will turn into a third world country.
How can you be so sure that America will turn into a third world country?
Let me tell you this, how I can be so sure. Right now the FBI is investigating 52,000 wealthy Americans who are hiding 15 billion dollars in secret, safe accounts. America is a very rich country with lots of millionaires, and altogether they have 15 billion dollars in tax-evaded secret, safe accounts.
India is a poor country. How much money do you think Indians have in secret safe accounts? It’s 1500 billion, 1.5 trillion dollars that Indians have in secret accounts. We’re number one. Russia is number two; Russians have 350 billion.
Now, what does that tell you about America? It tells you that Americans pay taxes. Very few people cheat. They hire tax consultants; they save as much tax as they can legally. Very few of them take illegal means to save taxes.
Why do Americans pay taxes? Is there any reason for you to pay your tax if the government is going to take that money and give it to corrupt corporations that have made a mess of your economy by billions of dollars…trillions of dollars?
While you are making money, they are messing up money. Why should you pay taxes to bail them out? The reason we pay taxes, is because the Bible said that you shouldn’t steal –that you should pay your taxes.
The character was shaped by a parable that if you turn five talents into 10 talents, you will be honored; you will be given more responsibility; that the one who has more will be given more. That is what American Capitalism was built on–the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Today, [American character] is a house without a foundation.
A house without a foundation, Jesus said at the end of the Sermon of the Mount, can stay a long time, but one day there will be heavy rains and there will be floods, and there will be storms, and earthquakes, and there will be a Katrina and hurricanes, and the houses that have no foundations will collapse.
One law, such as anybody who makes more than $250,000 will be taxed to bail out the corrupt, could bring down the American character, which pays taxes out of habit, because this is what your fathers and grandfathers who believed in a myth called the Bible taught you to do.
Once you have destroyed the character that pays taxes, so people are making money, but they are not bringing the money back to America– they are hiding it in Swiss bank accounts with the help of Indian financial managers–how do you then stimulate the economy?
You will have tons of experts saying that we need another war. For the last 12 months or 18 months serious economists, serious scholars have been arguing that in the 1920s and 30s America didn’t come out depression through the New Deal through government intervention. It was the Second World War that stimulated the economy and brought America out of depression.
Whoa, Obama won an election on anti-war platform how can he go to war? He doesn’t have to go to war. America has enough allies. A war can be started by any number of ways to help stimulate the American economy. This would be really terrible for the world’s only superpower, economic super power, military superpower, having destroyed its own character, its own taxpaying habits then needing to go to war, plunging the world into a world war in order to stimulate its own economy.
The devil said to Jesus, the glory and splendor and power and authority of these nations belongs to me. I’ll give them to you if you bow before me. Do you think the devil was bluffing Jesus? Jesus acknowledged the devil as the prince of this world. Paul said the devil rules the children of disobedience. ..He is the lord of the air. John says in 1 john 5:19 that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. America was a nation under God. As it ceases to be a nation under God, it will become a nation under the devil and this is serious. This is not a joke. The whole world knows what it is to live under brutal wicked unscrupulous political and military leaders. That is America’s future—a kingdom under Satan. It doesn’t have to end up like this, but it will.
What would you say to those who call Christians intolerant?
I have studied tolerance as well as anyone else. Tolerance is a peculiar product of Biblical Christianity.
Europe was extremely intolerant until the 16th Century. From 1618-1648, during the 30 years war of religious bigotry, Protestants were killing Catholics; Catholics were killing Protestants. Anglicans were killing Puritans. Lutherans were killing Baptists. Everybody was killing everybody except for the Quakers and the Mennonites because they were pacifists. Of course the Muslims and the Hindus and the Buddhists, they had all been killing each other all the time anyway.
There were three intellectual ideas that started the move for tolerance. First John Milton in his little booklet called Areopagitica, in which he argued that truth and falsehood should be allowed to grapple with each other freely, without putting the coercive arm of the state on the side of one idea.
So Anglicans and Puritans should be allowed to debate “what is truth,” without the state choosing a side. People should be free to choose because in a free and fair combat, truth will always win. This was a very modern assumption that the human mind can know the truth because the human mind is made in God’s image.
This is a very Biblical assumption. Hindus don’t believe that the human mind can know the truth; Buddha didn’t believe that the human mind could know the truth. The Postmodern West doesn’t believe that the human mind can know the truth.
The second foundation of tolerance came from the Long Assembly under Oliver Cromwell during the Westminster Assembly. It was based on the Doctrine of Conscience. This says that a citizen is not the property of the state; a citizen is the property of the Creator. We will give an account to our creator, and we will give an account based on our conscience. Therefore people should be free to live by their conscience and the state should not crush anyone’s conscience. The state is there to defend the individual’s conscience, not to lord it over anyone’s conscience.
The doctrine of conscience which was there as part of the New Testament; it was very important to Luther, but it became a part of Western political philosophy through Westminster Confession, which was adopted by the Parliament and came a part of British law.
Now, what is conscience? If a human being is only an animal–only chemistry– then a conscience is nothing, but culturally conditioned chemistry. That is why no atheistic country has ever been able to respect or tolerate conscience. If your conscience disagrees with the state, you go to the concentration camp because you need reeducation of your conscience. The doctrine of conscience is a peculiarly New Testament philosophy based on the Old Testament. It is not a liberal idea. It is not a Darwinian Evolutionary part of a secular world view.
The third pillar of Western tolerance was John Locke’s Letters Concerning Toleration. He had a number of arguments. The most important argument was the cross. That God can use force to destroy evil and destroy Satan, but God uses the cross, which is self-sacrificing love.
Jesus and his apostles did not use the sword to spread their ideas. He demonstrated that he is the Messiah and his disciples persuaded people that he is the messiah. If God uses self-sacrificing love to woo rebels, we the state should not use force.
The cross, conscience, and the idea of what the human mind is what truth is, these were the intellectual foundations of tolerance.
Every single one of those foundations has been destroyed by liberal education.
Therefore liberalism has hijacked the Western tradition of tolerance and destroyed it, calling it political correctness. Now you are allowed to say what we tell you to say. If you believe that homosexuality is sin, you cannot say so.
America is not tolerant because it was white; Germany was white; Russia was white. America was tolerant because the Puritan movement which shaped America decisively is the source of Western tolerance.
I know you are big into pop culture. What’s on your radar these days?
Of course, the big news is Michael Jackson. That is a tragedy because one of my lectures in my series, Must the Sun Set on the West is called from Paul to Paris Hilton. This was a lecture given in the city of St. Paul Minnesota, so that was sort of the context.
The transformation of heroism from character to talent…
When Samuel was sent to anoint a substitute for Saul, king of Israel, Samuel told Saul that God rejected, him because he rejected the word of God.
After that, an evil spirit began to torment Saul. And he became a tormented soul. He turned his national army against his own son-in law and his own people; he became extremely oppressive.
God sent Samuel to anoint David; God told Samuel not to look at the outside. Man looks at outside. God looks at the heart. Character is more important. Gifts, talents, skills, abilities are important.
David was an extremely skilled warrior, courageous, skilled with the harp; he was a dancer like Michael Jackson.
He was a much greater poet and singer than Michael Jackson. No poet has been translated and memorized more than David in history has been translated and memorized.
So he was a great poet, great musician, great singer, great warrior, etc, etc, but to what matters to God at the end of the day is the heart—the character.
And here, Michael Jackson was a tormented soul. It just shows how completely the West is rejecting its perspective of what constitutes a great man and what constitutes heroism. It’s tragic; If Michael Jackson is the current icon of American pop culture, it is a powerful expression of the fact that America is ready not for a David, but for a Saul, and that’s what it will have.
–Tiffany Orr, the Underground managing editor
This month marks the 500th anniversary of John Calvin’s birthday.
